Practical Steps to Take Today in the Energy & Chemicals Industry: An Expert Discussion

With COVID-19,  oil-price fluctuations, and massive overproduction, process companies have had to navigate through endless disruption. Before the crisis, energy and chemical companies had high growth, earnings, and cash flow goals which appeared doable at $60 per barrel of crude. Those companies had plans to invest in new projects, continue global expansion, and focus on R&D initiatives. However, with the historic low prices that we’ve seen in 2020, every energy and chemical company is facing the startling fact that their business plans are now worse than outdated; they are irrelevant. 

What should energy and chemical companies do?

In this video, Genesis Longo Miranda, interviews Philip Daus, Managing Partner at Simon-Kucher & Partners; Hans-Peter Klug, PROS Senior Strategic Consultant; and Haley Glasgow, PROS Strategic Consultant to discuss this and more.

Hear these experts’ perspectives on what’s going on in the industry and why energy and chemical companies need to look beyond cost cutting and into pricing and digital initiatives.

Energy and chemical companies, it’s now or never.

Other resources:


[2:00] Philip shares insights from Simon-Kucher’s and Rice University’s Study on the Energy Industry

[4:25] Philip shares that pricing is the number one lever for energy companies (even compared to cost cutting) and is a missed opportunity right now 

[5:40] Hans shares about what is going on in the chemicals industry  

[7:05] Haley shares about what is going on in the utilities sector 

[8:03] Philip discusses how this crisis is different from ones in the past. He shares that companies need to be more flexible and adopt a more granular focus on pricing 

[9:39] Hans shares that his customers are focused on trying to better understand their customers, prevent price erosion, and continue with their digital transformation projects 

[11:16] Haley talks about utilities in Australia trying to be more customer-centric  

[12:28] Philip shares that he expects a lot of consolidation, bankruptcies, and completely new commercial organizations and business models in the energy industry  

[14:37] Philip shares that the oil and gas industry is behind other industries in terms of pricing and digital transformation 

[15:44] Hans describes that this crisis is accelerating the trend of people working from home, exploring new AI-technologies, and rethinking products and services 

[17:25] Haley shares that having a centralized pricing and selling platform are crucial as more people work from home 

[18:03] Philip shares that companies need to set up professional pricing functions within their organization instead of waiting for someone else to organize the rebound 

[20:23] Hans shares that companies need to ensure business continuity, protect revenues and cashflow, personalize the buying experience for their customer, etc. 

[22:33] Haley shares that utilities companies will shift their mindset to not be so dependent on this global supply chain with oil 

[23:54]  Hans responds to Philip’s question about what segments within the industry are doing well right now 

[26:06] Philip shares practical advice for companies depending on what stage they are on, in their journey 

[28:16] Haley recommends companies look into understanding what the struggles have been during this disruption to prioritize digital transformation initiatives 

[28:52] Hans expands on the need to continue digital transformation journeys with the right focus  

[30:00] Philip talks about customer loyalty in such difficult times 

Full Transcript:  

Genesis Longo Miranda: Well, hi everyone. My name is Genesis Longo Miranda, and I'm the Industry Marketing Manager at PROS. Today is April 29th, 2020, and I'm excited to be here with Philip Daus, Haley Glasgow, and Hans-Peter Klug, to discuss what's going on in the energy and chemicals industry, what will the new normal look like, and what are some practical steps that energy and chemical companies should be taking today? So without further ado, I'd like to start us off with introductions. Philip, let's start with you....

Philip Daus: Hey everyone, my name is Philip Daus, and I'm a partner with Simon-Kucher & Partners and managing partner of the Houston office in Texas. I've been in the firm for 16 plus years and I mainly focus on B2B verticals, so that's oil and gas, chemicals, industrial manufacturing firms. Happy to be here.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Thanks Philip, and SKP is a ... well, PROS is a proud partner of SKP, so we're really pleased that you're joining us today.

Philip Daus: Thank you.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Now, Haley?

Haley Glasgow: Hi Genesis, happy to be here. My name is Haley Glasgow, and I am the strategic consultant based in Sydney, and I look after the Asia Pacific region. Been at PROS a little over eight years, and I've been on the delivery side as well as the pre-sale side.
Genesis Longo Miranda: Thank you Haley for joining us, even if it's at a really inconvenient hour for you in Australia. Hans?

Hans-Peter Klug: Hi everyone, my name is Hans-Peter Klug. I'm a senior strategic consultant for PROS, based in Munich, Germany. I'm focusing mainly on the process manufacturing industries, and I've been fortunate enough to work with many of our oil and gas customers over the past nine years which I've now been at PROS.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Great, thanks Hans. Well, everyone I would really want us to start talking about what is going on in the energy and the chemicals industry. And Philip, I know that recently SKP and Rice conducted a survey to understand what exactly is going on. Would you mind sharing something about that survey, and about your findings?

Philip Daus: Yeah, happy to. So this was a survey that I authored together with Utpal Dholakia, who is a professor of marketing at Rice University, and we [inaudible 00:02:11] with a company called the Dynata and we got almost 200 executives. So, one third was top executives and one third middle executives from oil and gas companies all around the globe. Focus was on all field service companies, but essentially we covered all the different verticals within the oil and gas space. Now, for disclosure, we feel that this three weeks ago we published the results, two weeks ago which already seems like pretty long time back, considering that in between we had this oil price crash and prices going to negative 40 bucks per barrel. But I think that still, the key findings are still valid and give some insights of what companies in this space should do.

Philip Daus: First of all, not surprising, everybody blames everybody else for the current crisis. Keep in mind, this is not necessarily COVID-19 inflicted, but we saw the signs of an oil crisis or oil price crisis before that, certainly exasperated by COVID-19 and the huge declines in demand, worldwide demand for oil. But essentially the industry is saying that, well, we would like to need two to three years to get back to the former levels of 50 to $60 per barrel. So, that's a long time. We also saw that the break-even costs of the U.S. shale producers around $42 per barrel with large discrepancies, but you put two and two together and that means they're dramatic cuts anticipated even before last Monday. But the numbers that we heard was an average 35% CapEx reductions, that's the average. Then there are some firms that go up to 50% of CapEx reduction, so it's pretty dramatic.

Philip Daus: Mainly on the producer side, but as you know that it has a trickle down effect to suppliers into the industry offered service companies and so on. So, and again I'm talking about averages here, it's a little bit challenging to use averages because if you have your head in the fridge and your buttocks in the oven, then on average your body temperatures is okay, but you have two problems that you need to look out for. So, on average, the price decreases that I expected in the industry are negative 13%, and we all know what that essentially means for profitability. Maybe just two more points, we also ask about how industry experts view pricing as a lever and everybody agreed, well it's the number one lever actually even compared to cost cutting, production improvement measures and so on. So it came up as number one, but in terms of investment currently there's just nobody focusing on it, everybody's busy cost-cutting.

Philip Daus: So it's like a missed opportunity because in crisis times you really, really have to focus on pricing. Then the last point I wanted to make, one of the reasons for that is that executives that we tested in the survey largely underestimated the detrimental impact of price reductions. So, they all kind think, "Well, we have to give [inaudible 00:05:14] price." But they don't necessarily do the math, and we found that eight out of 10 executives largely underestimated the detrimental impact of price cuts.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Awesome. Well, thanks Philip. We're going to come back to those points later, maybe when we talk about what are some practical steps that energy and chemical companies can be doing. But for now, let's hear about what's going on in the chemical sector. So Hans, maybe you can shed some light on that.

Hans-Peter Klug: Yeah, I believe the chemicals industry is similar to what Philip just said for the oil and gas industry. The chemicals industry, especially in Europe has had some significant problems even prior to the COVID-19 crisis. It was mainly due chemicals being an early indicator for the economy. So therefore, they really struggled up front, and then COVID-19 situation just accelerated that situation. That was, I believe, due to two main reasons. So, on the one hand side, that crisis originated from China, which is A on the one hand side, the biggest markets for many of the European manufacturers, but it's also China and all of Asia is where they are getting the raw materials from. So they were really impacted on two ways. Also, more internally on the home front, many aspects of both the demand and supply of the economy have been immediately shut down due to actions which most of the countries and governments have been put in place, which affected them significantly.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Yeah. Similarly, Haley, I know that oil and price fluctuations and that demand affects the utilities industry, which is huge on energy. So, what do you see there at a global level?

Haley Glasgow: Yeah, so I think they're still trying to understand really how the oil prices are affecting energy prices, and I think time will tell with that. A component of oil is natural gas, which does make up about anywhere from 20 to 30% of electricity generation, and the utilities industry though right now, I mean, revenues have definitely taken a hit due to consumption for industrial and commercial being down. However, I think in the utilities once things do start getting back to normal, the recovery will be a lot smoother than some of the other industries.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Thanks for sharing Haley. As we're talking about what's going on in the industry, we know for sure that what we don't know is what's going to happen. So, how should companies be preparing maybe for these short term levers, how do they plan for different scenarios? Phillip, we can start with you.

Philip Daus: Yeah, I think one piece that probably I need to send up front is, just the fact that we believe that this crisis is very different from previous ones that we've seen. So, we all saw the huge financial crisis in 2009, but what's different this time is that [inaudible 00:08:22] necessarily think that there's L shape or U shape or V-shaped type of recovery, but you'd rather have to use all the letters of the alphabet. It's not necessarily going to be one homogeneous approach to dealing with the crisis, and we don't necessarily see one smooth recovery, whether it's a long one or a short one, it's rather going to be dips and ups and downs. So what that essentially means is that companies have to learn to be much more flexible in both ramping up and down production and creating products that work for that specific moment, but also in terms of pricing, right?

Philip Daus: So when you have a demand slump that your demand curve shifts to the left, you have to react with prices, but you also have to be very quick in increasing prices back upwards the moment that you can. So, in that sense, you're really, when you do a scenario calculation exercise, you have to do this on a more granular level, more vision specific. Then also take into account the different outlooks for the specific segments.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Great, thanks Philip. Yeah, it's true. I mean, my husband works in the energy industry and every day it's like what he thinks is going to happen changes, right? This is changing day to day. That's a really important note. Hans, what about in the chemicals industry? What do you foresee there?

Hans-Peter Klug: I think overall B2B businesses, I think medium and longterm. So currently they don't seek drastic changes in their business and pricing strategy. However, changes like Phillip mentioned and talked about, I believe on the one hand side we will see the impact of this current situation for quite a long time, and also things change quite drastically over the next months, weeks, months and probably years. So therefore I believe from talking to my customers, there are three elements that they are currently focused on. On the one hand side they are trying to understand what their customers value now and try to meet those underlying needs right now rather than to reduce price.

Hans-Peter Klug: Secondly, they are trying to have procedures, strategies and pricing policy in place that prevent price erosion. There's simply no point right now in chasing a volume that is not here at the moment at the expense of a longer term margin erosion. So, really focus on the pricing discipline and those different companies. Last but not least, they're trying to continue the digital transformation projects and also pricing projects, because that crisis can and will certainly accelerate those efforts.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Yeah, certainly well, and Hans, we're going to come back to that in just a second, but before that Haley, do you have anything to add in terms of the utilities and utility sector?

Haley Glasgow: Yeah, I mean, the utility sector, it's pretty competitive in Australia anyway. I mean, I imagine across the globe in some States in the U.S. it's heavily regulated, in some States it's very competitive. What those energy companies or utilities companies have been doing is really thinking customer first and making sure that during this time they are sticking with the customer. So again, whether somebody is having issues paying their bill, the customer retention is key. Really, typically every customer gain, does the customer lost in utility. So, I think right now through this time, making sure that utilities companies can really have a good customer experience and really make the customer feel that they are actually being thought about and that they do have a partner, and somebody just not going to shut the lights off is really crucial here.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Yeah. To show that they care. Thanks Haley. Back to that point of, I mean, what all three of you mentioned, eventually there will be a new normal, right? Philip you mentioned it could be in three years, it could be sooner, it could be later, but what do you guys expect that new normal to look like?

Philip Daus: Yeah. So that's a little bit like looking into the crystal ball, and I'm not a teller of the future. So I think we all can just take guesses on the current status. I think in the U.S. we will go through a lot of pain. Currently we have the CapEx reductions, but again, if we produce below costs and we have to do that for a longer time, it's just not sustainable. So in the U.S. you'll see a lot of consolidation going on, lots of bankruptcies, a lot of the oil and gas producers, they're essentially very debt ridden, and they will run out of cash. We also see that in some of the bigger companies, Apache, Marathon Oil or Halliburton. So, those are all candidates that might change over ownership relatively quickly. Then, of course the new normal depends a whole lot on what happens to oil prices.

Philip Daus: Now, that being said, again, my personal guesstimates here would be that, it's not going to be a smooth recovery, there's going to be a lot of volatility. So, new normal will likely mean having a completely different commercial organization. So, that is much more able to react flexibly in agile to market developments. It's one that comes up with the product development, so product design quicker. We already see some changes in the way that companies monetize. I know that in the chemicals industry as well, there's this concept of chemicals as a service. So, instead of providing the chemicals you actually sell the service of using them. So it could be, for example, instead of chemicals for water treatment, you actually do the water treatment yourself, the wastewater treatment.

Philip Daus: So, we also see that for some of the oil and gas suppliers, people thinking about changing the monetization model and going from a CapEx to OpEx model. I think this will have long lasting impacts on the future.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Yeah. Philip, do you think that that new normal and preparing for that new normal will look different in the energy industry or in oil and gas specifically compared to the other pieces of the energy industry?

Philip Daus: Well, I do think so simply because of my personal opinion, the oil and gas industry is a little bit more behind everyone else. So if you look at the large companies, most of them don't even have a pricing department. So they have never thought professionally about pricing, they have a very much commodity mindset, and it's very difficult to explain to them the concept that, guys are not pricing oil, you're pricing products and services for the oil industry that require high level of engineering and expertise. But still when you talk to executives, they all say, "We are commoditized." There's like this mismatch, and I think hopefully we'll see that once the cost cutting wave is over and companies start to wake up and say we can't cost cut ourselves back to health, we need to do something else. Where they realize, well, price defense for our products and services will become key. So I think in that sense we were a little bit behind what we are seeing in the chemical space and particularly in the utility space that has worked with pricing for the last decade I'd say.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Right. Hans and Haley, both of you work with customers and prospects that are preparing for this new normal. What are you seeing there?

Hans-Peter Klug: I think there are many things that will certainly change in the future. On the one hand side what we see, I think many more people will be working from home in the future. Some companies are really appreciating that the productivity is actually increasing in many cases, and that will drive more need to exploit modern technology. Most of the companies that I'm talking to already have a longterm eCommerce strategy in place. Even before the recent events, we were seeing an acceleration towards this one, especially since the number of digitally native buyers is really increasing. I think this latest crisis will further accelerate that trend.

Hans-Peter Klug: Other companies also accelerate their pricing initiatives to have better processes, strategies, solution in place to be able to quicker react on changing market conditions and to be able to offer new services rather than just selling their product [inaudible 00:16:59] we offer a whole set of services and new business model to the customers. And last but not least, companies that are using AI, certainly right now, see a big positive impact from this technology to be more nimble, flexible, and much faster when reacting to the changing market conditions?

Genesis Longo Miranda: Absolutely. Similar points to what Phillip was saying, right? Haley, are you seeing the same thing across the board?

Haley Glasgow: Yeah. I mean, people working from home and digital being a key component of that, having a centralized pricing platform, having a centralized selling platform is crucial to help power that work from home, if not, it may be a little chaotic.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Great. Well, let's talk now ... I mean, we've kind of alluded to it, but I want us really focus on, once the upswing hits, once the rebound hits, how can companies best capitalize on that? What can they do now so that when that upswing does happen, that recovery mode does happen, they'll be ready?

Philip Daus: Again, just to explain, in the oil and gas industry, I think many companies are waiting for somebody else to organize the rebound for them. Right? So I think the mentality currently is cost cutting, cost cutting, cost cutting and a little bit of operations improvement. That's also what we saw in the survey that we did, 80% of the activities are really focused on just pure cost cutting activities. Rebound in the history of the industry has always looked at what happens to production levels, and is somebody cutting production levels, and then in the past was OPEC or OPEC plus. If you talk to the executives in the industry, the blame goes currently to Saudi Arabia and Russia for initiating the price for oil. However, the true underlying cause as I said before, it's not COVID-19, it's massive overproduction coming from the U.S. from the shale producers that last decade essentially ramped up production tremendously became number one producer in the world and so on and so forth, and we saw the impact.

Philip Daus: So, I think in the U.S. there's a little bit that mindset of blaming everybody else and hoping that the price goes back to normal, and cost cutting is the number one activity. There's little activity that we currently see of becoming a bit more proactive. So again, I don't necessarily foresee that mindset to shift. So, for the few companies out there that take a bit more of a professional approach, they can actually talk to the peers from the chemicals industry or from the energy industry. So it's really about setting up professional pricing functions within the organization, it's about linking those functions to the sales force defending price, talking value. Like all these things that I think we've been preaching for the last ... I mean [inaudible 00:19:58] for 35 years, I think you guys [crosstalk 00:20:01]

Genesis Longo Miranda: [crosstalk 00:20:01] 35 years.

Philip Daus: Right? So, it's more a question of ... like right now the situation is so dire that I hope that some folks will start to reaching out for different remedies to treat this crisis.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Yeah, that's great. Hans and Haley, what do you think about the rebound phase?

Hans-Peter Klug: So, I think many of the companies that I've been talking to, they're focusing on three elements. So the first element is really how to protect their business. This is similar to what Philip just said, ensuring business continuity, trying to find revenues that they can protect, make sure the cashflow is still somewhat intact, and other business relevant factors. In a nutshell, being flexible, nimble, costs cutting, stopping any non-business critical projects and locking in business at risk. So this is really to protect the business that they can protect at this point in time. However, they are also looking at two additional ones, on the one hand side, how to develop and further nurture their business.

Hans-Peter Klug: This is really focusing on the company strength. How to use their strengths to considering the current situation to win more business over the competitor, how to strategically price to win incremental business, how to digitize the business and how to be able to provide a personalized buying experience for their customer, but also which services to provide to keep loyal customers happy because those loyal customers will not forget if you disappoint them right now in the current situation. The third element that they are looking for, how to innovate the business.

Hans-Peter Klug: So, how to get stronger out of the current situation than they were before and how to really, once this crisis gets back to a new normal, how can new capabilities and skills be developed, which can then be leveraged to gain a competitive advantage, not only now but also in the future, but also which technologies for example, eCommerce, AI will need to be implemented or further improved to enable those companies to serve their customers differently and better in the future, and also be more nimble, more quick on their tools to react to changing customer needs and market conditions.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Thanks Hans, and Haley?

Haley Glasgow: Yeah, and I mean, from utilities perspective, if they're not already digital they would probably start moving that way, but like we were talking about in the beginning as far as the rebound, it'll be interesting to see really how the decrease in oil prices and production might reduce the supply of cheap natural gas. This could cause a bump up in the price of natural gas, which may increase the price of electricity as a side effect. So again, it will be interesting to see if that does take place, which I think time will tell this year.

Philip Daus: I actually wonder if you guys all see pockets of your industries that are actually currently doing really, really well and oil and gas would be the storage industry that's currently making a killing. I heard that in energy also, like in the retail market, you've got cheap electricity and everybody's at home and picking up phones wonderfully. So I know that the electricity companies in Houston or in Texas where you have a liberated market that they're actually doing really well right now. So, do you see some of those elements as well in your markets?

Hans-Peter Klug: Yeah, absolutely. Especially if you look in Europe, there're companies like TeamViewer who has, I believe, also remote working and remote collaboration tools which have gone through the roof. There are other areas, like for example if you're trying to be in the food packaging industry, delivering to the restaurants, food packaging things, they've doubled and tripled their prices or even home exercise equipment as nobody in most countries of Europe is allowed to go out anymore. If you try to buy any home exercise equipment lately, the market is nearly empty. So definitely there are some early gainers from that crisis.

Genesis Longo Miranda: And the chemicals that go into those products, right? Like food packaging and a lot of the health care products.

Haley Glasgow: Yeah. I mean, I definitely think from the utilities industry you think, "Okay, people are working from home more, which is definitely generating electricity and that's going to be good in terms of revenue." I think the problem in Australia is that the unemployment rate is at a high, it hit the double digits for the first time. So, I think the problem there is that people are at home and they're using electricity, but they're having trouble paying for it. That's one of the components here. So there has been a slight decrease in revenue, and it will be interesting to see how much longer this does last and when jobs do start coming back, where the utilities companies here can start recovering.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Okay. Well, Philip, you've talked a lot about how a lot of energy companies are doing reductions in their spending, and Hans and Haley, you've both alluded to the investments in digital and in pricing and how that's important. But these all sound like very daunting tasks and initiatives, right? For these energy executives who are trying to survive right now. So, what are, maybe two or three practical things that these executives could be doing today in terms of looking at their prices or undergoing these digital transformation initiatives?

Philip Daus: I would say it depends largely on where these companies are on the pricing journey today. So, from super basic gut-feel pricing to a very scientific, and we have all systems in place, but if you get started on the journey, price defense right now becomes key. We always recommend our clients to ... if you don't have an organization, start with a pricing council. That's a group of people that meets at least every month, I think currently are meeting every week, might be of the order and that makes pricing a priority. So that's really executive level topic, and you discuss pricing issues that comes with starting to focus the more differentiated products that you have in your portfolio thinking about the value communication, how you defend prices there, it comes to thinking of price alternatives. So customers ask for price reduction, offer them something that's not a price reduction, whatever that could look like.

Philip Daus: One of our clients had this fantastic, very simple rule that said, every time sales rep comes to me and wants a discount internally, they have to come up with at least three alternative ideas of what else we could do but giving discount, it's a very simple rule. People get very creative and they also start to realize price is one of the levers that we have, but there might be different ones. If you're a little bit further down that pricing journey and you might think of better ways to give guidance to your salespeople, keep in mind that most sales reps have never seen a crisis like this before in the current companies. So the average tenure of a sales rep is about six years. The last crisis was 2009, so people need guidance of what to do with the products right now and with the prices of these products right now. So, how to set up guidance a bit more structurally.

Philip Daus: Then I think the next level would be when you talk about digital, right? That would be creating more agility to be faster to react or demand changes, and in an ideal case, have something like a dynamic pricing system installed that takes all these levers into account. So, it depends on where you are, but the different things that companies can do right now to be better prepared for the current situation.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Those are great suggestions, Phillip. Thank you. Haley, do you have any recommendations?

Haley Glasgow: Yeah, and I mean, I think Phillip nailed it with, it depends where you're at on the journey, but I think that no matter what, even making the journey to digital, it doesn't have to be a huge daunting task. Starting small and figuring out, what did we really struggle with during this huge disruption? Was it pricing? Was it selling? That'll really help you decide which ... where to prioritize your time and effort. Start small and work your way up to that full digital transformation.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Great. And Hans?

Hans-Peter Klug: I would like to echo what both Philip and Haley says, so on the one hand side, it's really start or expand on your journey to digital, makes buyers want to ensure that they can use the eCommerce channels and that they can still expect a personalized experience through this channel. That means being right, being guided to the right combinations of products and services that matches the requirements, but at a price that matches their willingness to pay without having those time-consuming price negotiations through traditional terms. Secondly, I believe what's really important, I think buyers will be more aware of the importance of having flexible and fear and reliable trading partners. So, if you take advantage of your customers right now in that crisis, they won't forget about that once the crisis is over. So really a work on that, be reliable to your good customers to keep them happy, they will not forget about that.

Genesis Longo Miranda: That's great, Hans. Yeah. I mean, in a world where people are trying to define what loyalty looks like, right? This is a key way to obtain that for the future.

Philip Daus: Genesis, may I add one point ... specific talk about loyalty, it's just one of those bloopers that I saw last week with a former client of ours. So they, during the crisis, had lots of churn rates, and they decided internally, "Hey, we need to lower prices." And if you're at that point where you say there's no way around price decreases, you just can't deal with it any other way, make sure you put a date to it when those price decreases will be reviewed. They slashed all their prices for all their customers indiscriminately, 50% and you all know what that means. It's an absolute bloodbath, but they also mentioned it was the only and first decision they've made in the last decade that went through anonymously, at the same time, and everybody agreed on it.

Philip Daus: They're stuck with these price decreases now and they have no way of getting them back up once we get out of the trough because customers love them. Right? So again, if you have to implement price increases, make sure you say it's two months and then we'll review, and if there's nothing else happening in this world economy we'll take them back up to normal levels, and this is our gift to you, so to say [crosstalk 00:31:13]

Hans-Peter Klug:[inaudible 00:31:13]

Genesis Longo Miranda: Sorry Hans, what was that?

Hans-Peter Klug: I couldn't agree more.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Yeah. What are those right decisions right now? Right? Because like you said, cutting those prices, I mean, what are they going to do afterwards? Well, any final comments everyone?

Philip Daus: Thanks for inviting us.

Haley Glasgow: [inaudible 00:31:36] thank you.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Yeah. Thank you for coming, thank you for being here. Thank you for your expertise and for your advice, we really appreciate it. Philip, once again, we really appreciate your partnership as SKP, and I will post the information, I mean, your contact information, where we post this video as well as maybe some resources fill up like your Rice SKP study on the energy industry. Maybe some links to that, that way people can watch that. But once again, thank you so much for being here and for your commentary.

Philip Daus: Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Hans-Peter Klug: Thank you.

Haley Glasgow: Thanks.

Genesis Longo Miranda: Bye.

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